Kiss Feed Media (KFM) recently sat down with Lloyd from the Foodiot podcast to discuss an upcoming episode he’s been working on about bananas.
KFM: So we understand you’re working on something about bananas. What about them exactly?
Lloyd: That’s difficult to explain. It’s about a lot of things. It started out when we discovered banana flavoring doesn’t taste like real bananas. While doing research, we found the flavoring was based on a different banana than the one we all know. The other banana was popular but its crops dwindled to the point they couldn’t keep up with demand.
KFM: That’s—I don’t want to say interesting. It’s a lot. So you’re writing about this extinct banana?
Lloyd: See, that’s the thing. It’s not extinct. I thought it was extinct at first. While verifying some facts about banana flavoring being based on this mythical banana, I discovered it still exists. It’s called the Gros Michel. It went through an extinction level event in the mid-1900s, forcing the banana industry to find a new top banana.
KFM: So banana flavoring doesn’t taste like the banana we know, because a different banana used to be more popular. And it’s not extinct. Seems like that would be pretty easy to write. Unnecessary maybe, but easy.
Lloyd: Was there a question there?
KFM: Oh, right. Sorry. I guess why didn’t they just change the banana flavoring when they changed the banana?
Lloyd: Why didn’t they just change the banana flavoring? Good question! Turns out food scientists at the advent of artificial flavors weren’t trying that hard to get it right.
KFM: They weren’t trying that hard?
Lloyd: Okay, that’s probably unfair. It was in the 1800s. Banana flavoring was sold in the US as early as 1860. To put the tech of the era into perspective, the typewriter was invented in 1867 and the lightbulb was invented in 1879. But actual bananas weren’t introduced to the US until 1876.
KFM: Wait, what? 1876?
Lloyd: Yeah. I guess there was a big fair at the Philadelphia Centennial in 1876.
KFM: 1876. 1776. That makes sense.
Lloyd: Right, anyway. So, figuratively speaking, they were shooting in the dark for 15 years.
KFM: Also literally speaking.
Lloyd: What?
KFM: You said the lightbulb was invented in 1879.
“How many ‘na’s are on this thing? ‘Bana.’ Keep Going. ‘Bananana.’ Damn.
– Demetri Martin
Lloyd: They still had candles. And the daytime.
KFM: My bad.
Lloyd: As I was saying, it was hard. And it didn’t get much easier even when they got their hands on bananas. Most foods have extremely complex flavor profiles. According to artificial flavor expert Nadia Berenstein, they have individual flavor molecules ranging anywhere from the millions to the billions, all of which combine to make the taste we recognize. It’s like taste synecdoche.
KFM: Taste synecdoche? That doesn’t even make sense.
Lloyd: No? I thought it was kind of clever.
KFM: I don’t think you know what synecdoche means. I’m not sure you’re even saying it right. I think it’s “key” at the end, not like “coach.”
Lloyd: Fine. Imagine an extraterrestrial species comes to Earth, and they abduct a cruise ship. They analyze these 100,000 people and determine what all people on Earth are like based on this very small sample size. That’s kind of how flavor profiles work, as I understand it. There are millions and sometimes billions of individual things making up what we know as the whole. It’s apparently really hard to analyze in general. Imagine doing it with technology from the 1860s. Like, the bicycle was invented in 1861. They were working with that level of science. So instead of waiting around for another century or two for the right tech to come along, they just settled for flavors that were “fruity” or had the essence of a particular fruit.
KFM: You think there are 100,000 people on a cruise ship?
Lloyd: I don’t know. There were like 93,000 people at Wrestlemania III, so that’s probably a little high, huh?
KFM: A little high? It’s got to be less than 5,000.
Lloyd: 5,000 people on a cruise ship? That’s way too low. Are you googling it?
KFM: Yeah, I’m googling it in the middle of our interview. I’m auditioning to be a host on your show. Found it. The average cruise ship has about 3,000 passengers, but some hold up to 6,000.
Lloyd: Huh.
KFM: So nowhere near 100,000.
Lloyd: Wow. 3,000. That means Wrestlemania III had like 31 cruise ships worth of people in attendance. What were we talking about again?
KFM: You were explaining flavor profiles, but I don’t think I understand. I don’t actually think you understand. So you don’t know why they never updated banana flavoring despite advances in technology?
Lloyd: I do not. I didn’t get that far in my research. But from what I did see it’s still extremely complicated, even with today’s technology.
“There’s always money in the banana stand.”
– George Bluth Sr.
KFM: I’m starting to see why you have such a hard time writing.
Lloyd: That’s hurtful.
KFM: I’m sorry. Let’s get back to the interview. You said the banana popular prior to the mid-1900s was called a Gros Michel?
Lloyd: Correct.
KFM: I didn’t realize bananas had names. I kind of thought there were bananas and plantains. And maybe red bananas are a thing?
Lloyd: Right, me too. But it turns out there are over 1,000 different types of bananas.
KFM: And what’s the name of the banana that replaced the Gros Michel? Is that the one we still eat today?
Lloyd: It’s called the Cavendish, and it is the banana we all know today.
KFM: Let’s back up a minute here, though. You said there are over 1,000 different types of bananas?
Lloyd: Apparently.
KFM: That can’t be right.
Lloyd: According to my research, it’s right.
KFM: Yeah, but you also thought a cruise ship held 100,000 people. You’re sure about that?
Lloyd: I mean, you can google it if you want.
KFM: That’s crazy. 1,000 different bananas and I didn’t even know they had names.
Lloyd: Until we started doing this podcast I thought there was A banana, but I don’t blame myself for that one.
KFM: No?
Lloyd: No. Because despite so many banana varieties available (some even tasting like pineapple and strawberry), the Cavendish makes up over 99% of worldwide banana sales. I thought there was only one banana because I’ve only ever seen one kind.
KFM: Why, if we have so many flavorful options available, is the Cavendish so popular?
Lloyd: There are a lot of reasons why it became the banana of choice. It had a durable skin that worked as a container, it ripened in transit, it grew a lot of hands, and it didn’t have seeds.
KFM: Wait, what’s a hand?
Lloyd: That’s what an individual banana is called in a bunch.
“B A N A N A S.”
– Gwen Stefani
KFM: And it doesn’t have seeds?
Lloyd: Right. It doesn’t have seeds. Some bananas have seeds and some don’t, but most grow through a process of cloning I’m not smart enough to explain or fully understand. But anyway, yeah, they felt having no seeds made it more desirable for consumers.
KFM: You say “they” a lot. Who is “they” to you?
Lloyd: I don’t know. The government? Big Banana?
KFM: Sorry I asked. Let’s get back on topic. What happened to the Gros Michel in the first place to need to be replaced again?
Lloyd: That’s a good question. And again I’m not smart enough to explain it properly,. The Gros Michel was popular for many of the same reasons the Cavendish is, and was even a bit meatier.
KFM: Did you say, “meatier”?
Lloyd: Yeah. More banana. Meatier. No?
KFM: I don’t think so.
Lloyd: Fine. Bigger. That’s where the name came from. It means Big Mike or Fat Mike in French, because it was discovered in French Polynesia. One of the reasons for its popularity (the lack of seeds), made it susceptible to disease. It was almost wiped out by something called Fusarium Wilt.
KFM: Never heard of it.
Lloyd: It’s also called Panama Disease.
KFM: Still not ringing any bells.
Lloyd: Alright. Anyway, I guess it’s a tropical disease that affects plant life. And like I said, these bananas clone, so you need a banana to make a banana.
KFM: I still don’t get the clones thing.
Lloyd: Yeah. I don’t understand it, but it puts them at risk because they have to keep growing all the time or they’ll die out. You can’t just store seeds and grow them later. So when TR-2 started taking out banana crops, they couldn’t keep up with demand fast enough and were forced to find a second banana in the mid 1900s.
KFM: TR-2?
Lloyd: Sorry. That’s the strain of Panama Disease that hurt the Gros Michel. Tropical Race 2.
KFM: I was thinking like Terminator 2.
Lloyd: I had the same thought.
“You got a banana. You don’t need no snack pack.”
– Juanita
KFM: So the Cavendish isn’t affected by Panama Disease?
Lloyd: Yes and no. It’s resistant to TR-2. There’s a TR-4 strain which does pose a serious threat to the Cavendish.
KFM: That doesn’t sound good.
Lloyd: It’s not good. And to make matters worse, 85% of the world’s bananas are grown in one region in South America, which is currently at risk.
KFM: It seems kind of dumb to grow them all in one place if they’re so easy to wipe out and so hard to grow back.
Lloyd: I mean, I’m not a farmer or a scientist, but it does seem dumb.
KFM: So the banana as we know it might go extinct?
Lloyd: Yeah, but only as a mass product. Like what happened with Fat Mike.
KFM: You’re just calling it whatever now?
Lloyd: I mean, nobody knows what it is anyway. Unless they read this or listen to the pod.
KFM: Yeah, you’re probably safe to call it what you want. What happens if it does go mostly extinct?
Lloyd: Once again, I’m probably the wrong person to ask about this, but there are smart people working on a lot of different solutions, so we should be okay.
KFM: Solutions such as?
Lloyd: Just in my limited research I found there are farmers and food scientists working on crossbreeding a TR-4 resistant Cavendish. And a team of scientists already created a GMO Cavendish. Some of the farmers seemed to think a shift in how the world consumes bananas would be a more sustainable solution.
KFM: GMO?
Lloyd: Right, sorry. I didn’t know that either before I started this. It’s short for genetically modified. Long story short, because I can’t tell the long story, they used a process called CRISP-R to modify the DNA of the banana to make it resistant to TR-4.
KFM: Sounds like the problem is solved.
Lloyd: Not exactly. Most countries don’t allow the sale of genetically modified food. And even countries that do, like the US, don’t yet allow the GMO Cavendish to be sold.
KFM: You’re telling me GMO foods are widely disregarded but legal in the US?
Lloyd: Again, wrong guy to ask, but yeah.
“Orange you glad I didn’t say banana again?”
– Todd, probably
KFM: That’s unsettling. What were you saying about the farmers? What shift do they think we need to make?
Lloyd: According to them, a more sustainable answer would be for us to get all the different varieties of bananas into the mix. They feel it would help reduce the overall effects of tropical diseases because it would allow for more biodiversity in growing regions. This would probably benefit us from a health standpoint, too.
KFM: That sounds great. It’s good for everyone, and I get strawberry bananas.
Lloyd: Yeah. We’ll probably just get a smaller version of what we already have, though. Because money.
KFM: That’s dim. Anyway, last question: Why aren’t you writing?
Lloyd: That’s a good question. I’ve got a lot of projects going on with the podcast, and we’ve got the kids and the new baby. It’s a lot.
KFM: I had a feeling you might bring these things up. It seems like the guys are doing most of the work on the pod, and Aubri takes care of the kids most of the time. You want to think about that a little more? Give me a more honest answer?
Lloyd: Facebook.
KFM: And we’ll leave It there. Thanks so much for doing this.
Lloyd: Wait, I didn’t tell you about my banana allergy.
KFM: We’ll have to do that some other time.
Lloyd: Okay, sounds good. You got the check, right?
KFM: What are you talking about? You know I got the che—I paid when we ordered.
Lloyd: Right. Sorry.
KFM: You doing okay, man?
Lloyd: Am I doing okay? I should be home writing. Instead I’m sitting at Wendy’s talking to myself about bananas and thinking about Lincoln.
KFM: Lincoln? Lincoln the president? Lincoln the Nebraska? Lincoln the car?
Lloyd: The president.
KFM: Oh yeah?
Lloyd: Yeah. Like if banana flavoring became popular in the US in 1860, then he definitely had to have tried it. He was elected President in 1860. It was probably a nationwide craze. I’m sure he tried it.
KFM: I guess. Is that important?
“It looks like there aren’t many great matches for ‘Bananas in the Bible’ available.”
– Google
Lloyd: And actual bananas weren’t introduced to the US until the Philadelphia Centennial in 1876.
KFM: Yeah, you already said that.
Lloyd: But listen. Lincoln was assassinated in 1865, a year after his reelection, and a full 11 years before bananas were available in the US. He probably signed legislation on banana flavoring, but never got to taste a real banana. That’s kind of sad.
KFM: I mean, yeah. That is kind of sad.
Lloyd: Did you see they have strawberry Frosties now? We should get one of those.
KFM: Maybe next time.
Accurate but Lazy References
- The Reason Artificial Banana Flavor Tastes Nothing Like Real Bananas – America’s Test Kitchen
- The Imminent Death of the Cavendish Banana and Why It Affects Us All – BBC News
- Questions and Answers about CRISPR – Broad Institute
- Why the World’s Favorite Banana May Go Extinct – Business Insider
- The History of Food – Curiosity Stream
- How GMOs Are Regulated for Food and Plant Safety in the United States – FDA
- Australian Researchers Create TR4-Resistant GM Cavendish Banana – Fresh Fruit Portal
- Top Banana and Second Banana – Grammarist
- 8 Things You Didn’t Know About Bananas – PBS
- Why Doesn’t Cherry Candy Taste Like Real Cherries? – Science Friday
- Why Doesn’t Fake Banana Flavoring Taste Like Real Bananas? – Science Friday
- The Most Important Inventions of the 19th Century – ThoughtCo.
- Fusarium Wilt “Panama Disease” – Wikipedia
- Wrestlemania III – Wikipedia
- How Many People Can I Expect on My Cruise? – Windstar Cruises
- Billy Madison – Tamra Davis
- Arrested Development – Mitchell Hurwitz
- Comedy Central Presents Demetri Martin – Paul Miller
- Hollaback Girl – Gwen Stefani
- Dad Jokes – All of Us